The Virtual Coffeehouse

Pater's Conclusion and Rossetti's The Sonnet both seem to emphasize the importance of contributing art to the world before death steals the opportunity. Pater talks about the uniqueness of each of our voices and how a valuable it is to yourself and the surrounding community to create art. He says,

"we have an interval, and then our place knows us no more. Some spend this interval in listlessness, some in high passions, the wisest, [...] in art and song. For our one chance lies in expanding that interval, in getting as many pulsations as possible into the given time" (1513).

This quote suggests that art not only is a noble endeavor, but it expands the meaning of your life.

Along the same lines, Rossetti describes a sonnet, a form of art, to be a way in which people can leave a "moment's monument" that is an impression of their soul. Even in death, your soul's monument lives on in the art. Rossetti shows the value that others place upon this art by likening it to a coin. In death, the sonnet's value is still acknowledged and is evidence of a full life, accepted by Charon as payment for the "toll to Death."

I to agree with what Janet has mentioned about creating art that will never die. But also what I got from the last few paragraphs of the Conclusion to The Renaissance was the importance of change and individuality. Pater says...

"With this sense of the splendour of our experience and of its awful brevity, gathering all we are into one desperate effort to see and touch, we shall hardly have time to make theories about the things we see and touch. What we have to do is to be for ever curiously testing new opinions and courting new impressions, never acquiescing in a facile orthodoxy, of Comte, or of Hegel, or of our own."

Each person has individual experiences that form their own beliefs and attitudes. It is impossible to only rely on one person's account of something. We have to be constantly questioning new thoughts and opinions because change in life is inevitable. This aspect of individuality I feel is also evident in The Sonnet. Rossetti says "A Sonnet is a moment's monument - memorial from the soul's eternity". Our soul is what makes us an individual, no two people can have the same soul.

I also found the end of Pater's work to deal a lot with the idea of making sure that we all contribute to art before we die and similarly to appreciate it before it is gone.

I get this feeling when Pater states " While all melts under our feet, we may well grasp at any exquisite passion or contribution to knowledge that seems by a lifted horizon to set the spirit free for a moment.." (1512)

I also feel that Rossetti is going along the same lines as Pater when he talks about the loss of love in his poem "The Blessed Damsel". The speaker's love has died and when she pleads to be with her lover on earth, she understands that they can only be together when he comes to heaven with her. In this way i feel as though Rossetti is also trying to tell the reader that we need to appreciate the art/beauty that we have on earth before we die and we can no longer see how exquisite art really is.

I was thinking pretty much the same things as Laura said! Our individual beliefs and feelings about life and the world are shaped by our own personal experiences. No two people are alike, and it is important to remain an individual rather than following what other people do and say, and allowing them to form our opinions of things.

I agree with what everyone has said. In the conclusion to "The Renaissance," Pater is telling the readers to seek beauty for its own sake, because that is how to make the most of life. Pater describes life as "gathering all we are into one desperate effort to see and touch," because of the "awful brevity" of the experiences we have in life (1513). Rossetti says that a sonnet is a "memorial from the Soul's eternity / to one dead deathless hour" (1457). This seems to echo the idea that, even though our time on earth is fleeting, our soul will last for eternity, so we must enrich it with beauty while we can, and create "a moment's monument."

Pater stresses the shortness of an individual life - he says, "a counted number of pulses only is given to us" (1512). This reminded me of a line in another section of "The House of Life," which says "so singly flagged the pulses of each heart" (1458). Both Rossetti and Pater seem to be saying that, since everyone has such a limited time on earth, it is important to appreciate the beauty around you while you can.

Art has a way of capturing the artist's spirit. When we look at a painting or listen to a song, often its as if a piece of that artist is handed to us. Pater writes

"we have an interval, and then our place knows us no more. Some spend this interval in listlessness, some in high passions, the wisest, [...] in art and song. For our one chance lies in expanding that interval, in getting as many pulsations as possible into the given time" (1513).

He says "our one chance lies in expanding that interval". By spending time in art or song, and individual has the capability of capturing that moment in time forever. Through their work a memory lives on. Art is the chance to expand our interval.

Also, Rossetti writes,

"A sonnet is a moment's monument -
Memorial from the Soul's eternity
To one dead deathless hour.

Again, restating what Pater wrote, a sonnet (or art) is a memory from eternity. It captures a moment in time, creating a monument that will far surpass our death and expand our interval.

I believe Pater in his conclusion tries to argue for the importance of intellectual thought as it pertains to art. Pater says:

"what we have to do is to be forever curiously testing new opinions and courting new impressions... philosophical theories or ideas, as points of view, instruments of criticism, may help us to gather up what might otherwise pass unregarded by us" (1513)

While Pater does not advocate for hardcore theories or dogmatic systems, he does seem to advocate and place emphasis on thought. We should always be thinking.

This is echoed in Rossett's poem "The Sonnet" from House of Life. He says in line 1: "a sonnet is a moment's monument." Here, a sonnet seems to be the encapsulation of one particular thought. It is a marking of thought and therefore, it is important.

I agree with the reply that Amanda had stated. Each person has individual experiences and instances that reflect on who the person may become or how the person may act in his or her life.

Art can be one form of expression that demonstrates the feelings or emotions one may be having. Both Rossetti and Pater idealize the fact that it is important to take into consideration the actions that may have occured and to embrace them in some fashion.

The idea of contributing something before you die is prevalent, but I think the more important focus for both Rossetti and Pater was that a Sonnet (or any work of art) was something that captured a moment.

And to enjoy that moment when it came, because its gone in a second. And more importantly, make sure you are passionate about whatever it is you are doing.

"Only be sure it is passion - that it does yield you this fruit of a quickened, multiplied consciousness." (pg 1513)

"In Charon's palm it pay the toll to Death" (pg1457)

Pater says "At first sight experience seems to bury us under a flood of external objects, pressing upon us with a sharp and importunate reality, calling us out of ourselves in a thousand forms of action. But when reflection begins to play upon these objects they are dissipated under its influence..."
I find this passage to be very true. There are times in life (especially when you are a child) that certain events, objects, people, or concepts may seem have had a huge impact. However, looking back on these experiences, they are often not as great as they seemed when they were actually happening, and it is questioned why they were so influential.
Pater's idea relates to Rossetti's line, "A sonnet is a moment's monument". This is embracing the concept of honoring one moment or experience in time, so that its future impact is the same as it was originally.

I agree with pretty much what everyone has stated about the two writers addressing art and how throughout life and after death it remains the same and holds memories. I think when looking at these pieces it is also important to look at the eptigraph Pater uses in his Conclusion stating, "All things give way; nothing remaineth" (1511). This quote in the context of these pieces to me means that while the elements and things in life we know and are familiar with will eventually go away, that art will be passed on and remain despite the fact that we do not. Both authors therefore stress the importance of creating artwork as a way to keep ourselves, our thoughts, and memories of our lives as immortal as possible.

There is one line in Pater's "Conclusion" that ties his thoughts along with Rossetti's "The Sonnet":

"For our one chance lies in expanding that interval, in getting as many pulsations as possible into the given time."

Pater is saying that art is something that needs to be expressed as often as possible. If someone has an idea that could inspire others it is best to express it as soon as possible before that interval ends.

Rossetti "The Sonnet" is similar in its opening line when a sonnet is referred to as "a moment's monument." Art is too important to be ignored and Rossetti expresses that any moment can be expressed in many art forms, from paintings, to writing, to song. As long as the idea is expressed and not forgotten the art will be able to take some shape or form.

i agree with the previous posts. the authors are trying to maintain their memories through their artwork. they want to live on through their pieces of art and they both believe it's the only way for us to be remembered best. it's also important to embrace the moments that mean the most to us and express them through art work so others can embrace them and keep them alive.

I'm keeping this short - to avoid the unwanted repetition. I think both pieces focus on the idea of contributing art before you die. Through art, a person can express their own experiences and perspectives - individuality.

As many of you have stated that these two works both discuss the importance of contributing something to this world before you die. But the language that Rossetti and Pater use are simular as well. They both use very natural images to get their point across..e.g. in The Sonnet: "Dark wharf's cavernerous breath...Carve it in ebony or ivory...day and night..."

In Conclusion: "To burn with the hard, gemlike flame, to mainitain the ecstasy is success in life." and "Like the elements of which we are composed the action of theseforces extends beyond us; it rusts iron and ripens corn." (1511)