The Virtual Coffeehouse

Poor pip truly has convinced himself of a great many things within this story, which becomes an element of shame for him. He doesn't like to acknowledge it, but Pip has created a life centered around swindling himself. He has convinced himself that he is superior Joe and the life that they led at the forge and that he is by nature more accustomed to the life of a gentleman. When he buys the gentleman's clothing, he convinces himself that he doesn't want to wear it around "the commoners" because it would seem boastful rather than acknowledging that the clothing has failed to make him into a gentleman... he is still the same Pip underneath. Just as everyone else already mentioned, Pip is living in a world of self-swindling!

I have to say, along with many of the people before me, that I agree with what has already been posted. Pip is self-swindling because as he gains material wealth he robs himself of true happiness. He treats Joe with disrespect and looks down on him for being lower-class even though he is from the same class and Joe used to look out for him and was his friend. Pip tries to turn material wealth into true happiness but instead is swindling himself of the joys he would have from happiness

I think that Cherilyn's point is very interesting. Pip is aware of the fact that he is doing wrong, and he feels bad about it but that doesn't stop him from doing it. I think Pip is a good person at heart, and even though I have trouble liking him fully because of this behavior, it is a very human characteristic and I can't condemn him for it.

I, too, agree with everything being said. Pip is convinced that being a member of the upper class will bring him happiness and when he finds that he is coming into a great fortune he immediatley gains an air of superiority above Joe and Biddy. I think that he is indeed swindleing himself by letting Estella's cruel comments about him being common and poor get the best of him because up until that moment he had never really had these feelings.

"All other swindlers upon earth," declares Pip at the beginning of Chapter 28, "are nothing to the self-swindlers..." What does he mean by this, and how is the idea of swindling in general important to Pip's story?

I really like how everyone has pointed out so many good points. Like many others, sorry to be repetitive. I really like the point that Elise brought up with swindling seen as a power-hold and how people swindle to get what they want from others. Interestingly, self-swindling (as many brought up) is easy to do because it is easy to trick one's self. Rationalizations and ethical flexibility are types of self-swindling - in the sense that a person twists their morals in order to get what they want from themselves. (deeming it superfluous to reiterate Pip's example, i will leave it at this)

Of course, I am late in posting because of a sprinkler incident in the suite next to ours, so there is not much new to add. Pip has some awareness that when he allows himself to scorn his family that he does the most damage to himself. People can do the most harm to themselves. When you disrespect someone else, they may be hurt by it, but you are the one who is lowered. He is at least aware of what he does but at the same time, he seems unable to help himself because his instincts have changed. His first impulse is look down on those of a lower station even though he himself was once in that same station. Swindling seems to course through the novel as Pip must give up a great many things in order to attain other, seemingly more desirous things. He is on a perpetual journey to increase his standings but in order to this he cheats himself of all the things he once valued: family, loyalty, education and morality. He betrays the Avenger, Joe and Bertie, all casualties in Pip's quest.

Pip seems to forget that wealth can change him more and affect his family more than he realizes. Having money and being wealthy doesn't buy you happiness and i think that is the point that many don't people of different social classes don't realize. Realizing that you are doing something wrong like pip is doesn't even make hims stop even though he understands that the is not doing good. Many others of you have touched on so many good points. I feel that Pip's emotions are taking him over and he doesn't know how to change no that he is in this situation.

AmandaHagstrom wrote:I also thought it was interesting that Pip uses a metaphor of money to describe this, because it shows that that's what he's preoccupied with. Yet even though he's wealthy and upper-class, he still has to resort to a form of "swindling." Dickens seems to be saying that money doesn't buy happiness, nor can it buy human decency; being wealthy doesn't necessarily make you any better than a thief.

Amanda's posting made me think of the discussion we had last Tuesday regarding the Victorian's interest in the identity question. During class Professor Schacht mentioned that the Victorian thinkers were visibly wrestling with this question through their litertature. The French philosopher Descartes wrote 'I think therefore I am' which was referenced in Lewis Carol's Alice In Wonderland. The connection I'm trying to make is that perhaps this idea of Pip still 'resorting to a form of swindling' despite his newly claimed status has a lot to do with his identity. Perhaps Dickens is commenting on how despite social labels of wealthy v. poor we are actually, at heart, always the same and that wealth or poverty are simply arbituary labels. Pip has yet to learn this. He seems to believe that with his wealth he is now different than Joe and Biddie. Perhaps instead what Pip is meant to realize is that despite his wealth he is still the same person at heart.

I totally agree with Kristen when she writes, "When you disrespect someone else, they may be hurt by it, but you are the one who is lowered. He is at least aware of what he does but at the same time, he seems unable to help himself because his instincts have changed." I find myself amazed and bewildered many times in reading the novel as how much money has changed Pip. He hired his own servant, he feels self important when he returns to his hometown to meet with Miss Havisham and thinks that the whole town revolves around him walking down the street, and has to confess at the dinner at Mr. Jaggers' that he has a problem with spending too much money. He does forget about his past and the Trabbs' boy is there to mock him and remember that he has a new air about him. Concerning swindling, Pip is denying essential parts of who he is, and is in fact, lying to himself. Many people have made this point so far, and I completely agree.

The whole plot involves deception, but Pip is the greatest self deceiver of all. The first two acts rely on Pip's self deception and his own development, which only improves toward the end of the story.

Compeyson is the greatest deceiver of them all in my book since he is able to manipulate people so easily, although Ms.Havisham a very strong deceiver in the beginning, evident with Pip's continual belief that she wants him and Estella to be married.

But Pip's self deception is the cause of his great expectations, and in the end his full character growth and development.