The Virtual Coffeehouse

The picture that Amanda had depicted of the Victorian woman was exactly the picture in my head when asked the question over 3 months ago. I knew little about the values that Victorians held but through reading different pieces of literature and comparing the themes in each, I was able to gain a better understanding. When discussing Dickens and Kipling in class the other day, the relationship between individual identity and social class was brought up. I believe this constant struggle between material wealth vs being happy by putting aside material possessions has come to define a lot of the works of literature we have read. Identity has also become an important aspect to the Victorians through how people identify with themselves as well as how outside circumstances have impacted identity.

I agree with what Amanda S. said; the Victorian period was far more transitional and diverse than I originally thought. I looked back at my Jan. 24 post, and I wrote this:

When I hear the word 'Victorian', I get a mental image of a smoggy London street, with a woman wearing one of those massive crinoline dresses and a man in a suit and top hat. Since the Industrial Age was happening at this time (probably why I picture the smoggy street), I tend to think of capitalism, rigid social hierarchies, and corruption when I think of the Victorian era.

Looking back now, I don't think I would exactly pair capitalism with rigid social hierarchies in the Victorian times. As we saw in Great Expectations, the idea of social mobility emerged during this time. Even though this idea was partly a myth and people were still very much limited by their social status, social class became more difficult to define during the Victorian era. Also, writers like Carlyle who were against laissez-faire capitalism were in favor of stricter social hierarchies, so that everyone would know their place in society and be content with it. So even though capitalism was a characteristic of the Victorian era, the notions of social class were becoming more fluid and harder to pin down.

I also wrote:

I also associate the Victorian times with strict morals - there were certain ways people were expected to act, especially women.

While there were ways people were expected to act in the Victorian times, it could just as easily be said for our own time. And just as there are people today expressing their views against it, there were Victorians speaking out against conformity, such as John Stuart Mill. Also, the morals of some Victorians turned out to be not as rigid or conservative as I initially thought - like Dante Gabriel Rossetti, who painted erotic pictures, or Oscar Wilde, who thought art shouldn't have to have a purpose and who engaged in homosexual relationships (even though he was later put on trial for this).

Overall, my impression of the Victorians has become much more multi-faceted. The Victorians weren't a group of people with the same ideas about life; they simply shared the same time period, but they reacted to those times in a variety of ways.

I enjoyed reading the above posts. They definitely capture the essence of what I have learned about the Victorian age as well. My response to the original question read: "The word, 'Victorian,' first brings to mind lavish and ornate images. I believe that the Victorian era was characterized, in part, by a massive rift between the lower and upper classes, thereby resulting in a wretched standard of living for most, and one of glamour and riches for the lucky few. Also, morality became slightly questionable. Aside from this, my knowledge of this era is fairly limited, and I hope to learn much much more from this class!" I think I had a good conception of the ways in which Victorian society was structured, but I really wasn't aware of the extent to which the Victorians were so diverse in their ways of thinking. Prior to this class, I had no knowledge of the controversies over religion and the existence of God (I thought Huxley's essay on agnoticism was quite interesting), the beginning of change for women, and the fascination with childhood and formation of identity which existed during the Victorian Era.

I agree with what my classmates have written about the Victorian era actually being about questioning identity, gender roles, and the role of science in society. In my original post, I cited that the Victorian period was during the reign of Queen Victoria. Queen Victoria always seems so far away, but the fact that we have been able to hear sounds from the age and watch videos (such as Alice in Wonderland) really allowed me to connect to the Victorian age.

I think also that we can identify ourselves with the Victorians in some ways. For example, Pip's identity search in Great Expectations can be applied to various generations. Moreover, the influence of science (Darwin) can be connected to our modern era. I was amazed to see the connections that could be made to a "distant" time.

I think being an international relations major (therefore having to take a whole bunch of history classes) I wasn't too unfamiliar with a number of the issues during Victorian times such as imperialism, social struggle, and the scientific revolution vs religion. Still, I definitely learned a lot of new information about the position of women at the time not to mention the significance that the Jewish sector seems to have had back then (Idon't think I realized that there were many significant figures from this religious background in Victorian England). The figures of the Victorian era certainly seem more multidimensional to me now and not as flat as before - probably because I see now that they belonged to many more categories than I had previously believed. They weren't just about repressed sexality, finances, and manners... There were many prominent and well-followed figures who completely digressed from many of these issues (or at least presented new and revolutionary ideas about them).

I agree with most of what has been said by my classmates. Prior to really learning anything about the Victorians in class, I thought of the same rich upper class women obsessed with materials and image. I also thought of the strict moral rules of the time as what identified Victorians. While I still think that those individuals exsisted in the Victorian society, I now realize there were others who fought this image and went against the image I had created in my head. There were in fact, as Maria pointed out in her post, individuals who instead challenged such notions of the times. Based on the variety of readings which we were presented with I think that some of my thoughts on Victorian life were verified while at the same time new ones were introduced.

I generally agree with what everyone had previously said. Before taking this class, I had no idea what the Victorians were all about and what their beliefs were. The texts we read in this class brought up many themes and beliefs they held, including evolution, relgion and women. The Victorian period was definitely a time of change, which is always interesting to learn about. I feel as though I have a more clear vision of the Victorians and what they felt strongly about, just by reading some of the literature created during the period.

My idea of the Victorian Era basically revolved around reading Great Expectations and The Jungle Books. My view of the culture is similar to the other responses: extremely conservative, women in huge dresses, men in top hats with long coattails. The themes we discussed this semester definitely changed the conservative part of my perspective. Talking about evolution, women evolving in society, and imperialism were three of the most intense discussions that were held in class I think. These topics are proof of how important this time is in England's history. While some of the ideas expressed by the writers are disagreeable and offensive, by reading a variety of work from this era we are given insight into the schools of thought that existed in what was pretty much the world power at the time.

I agree with what my classmates have said. I didnt really know much about victorian england (which is one of the reasons I took the class). Looking back now, I see that the victorian era was hard to define-there was so much going on there from class struggles to identity crisises (both personally and as a nation) as well as new scientific advances and the doubting of religion. Learning about all of these different aspects of this time period has shattered any stereotype I ever had. It is clear now that the victorian period was a time of transistion and there were many defining aspects of this era.

My view of the Victorians has changed drastically; especially since I had the wrong time period in mind in the beginning. I now see the Victorians as people who were striving to learn more about life. Carlyle and Mill had questions about society and the government. Dickens and Carroll spoke on society. Rossetti created fantasy worlds as a forum where eroticism and capitalism could be discussed. The Victorians had a very unique way of using imagery and complex sentence structure in their writings. They truly questioned life and what it all means and also, how to advance as a society. Their inquisitive nature allowed for many texts (some very difficult to read) to be written and to have the conversation to be continued.

Looking back on the semester’s work and on my coffeehouse post from January 24th, I realize that my understanding of the word ‘Victorian’ has changed. Before taking this course, I had a vague idea of what it meant to be a Victorian person and live in a Victorian culture. This Era and all that its highlights has been strengthened over the past several months and, on looking back at my very first post, I realize how vague my definition really was. Victorians may seem prim and proper as I previously thought, but they also (like anyone in any Era) had many questions and uncertainties about many of the same topics we differ on today. Religion, Darwinism, issues on life and death, problems of identity, and things like the ‘woman question’ were just some of the topics that Victorians contemplated... but these same issues are still seen today. I guess what I didn’t realize (and this may seem naïve- I just never gave any thought to it before) – ‘Victorian’ is a lot more than a style of dress and an opinion of sex; it is life, like any human life, in one point in history in which the people of the time shared a general view of life and shared the same sorts of questions pertaining to life and afterlife and the purpose of life. This period of time differed from previous periods in that it was the rise of industrialism.

i'm pretty much just going to repeat what has been said already but when i first started this class i have the typical view of victorian england. Women covered from neck to toe, hoop skirts, cluttered houses, and smoggy England. After reading the texts from the class and our discussions its apparent that victorian england was so much more. The victorians were a major changing point in history, evolution surfaced, women were gaining more autonomy, and issues were being debated more freely. In fact the Victorian society was a lot more open and ready to confront and deal with modern issues than i ever imagined. It's been interesting discovering a small portion of the victorian society

I have a much more meaningful idea of what it was to live in the Victorian era. When before I had vague pictures of superficial characteristics, I know understand the era to be one of importance. The movements that were taking place in religion, women's status, social classes and economy now are in the forefront of my mind when I think of Victorian England rather than the tea parties like before. The works that we have studies really is a good indication of the value of literature and what people can learn about people from a different time and place. Seeing how issues from long ago are still relevant today reinforces the importance of taking a class such as this one. What I have learned in this class will stay with me much longer than any informational facts that i learned in any history class.

I definitely think that some of the things I associated with the Victorian era were in the right ballpark but throughout the semester my view of the period has become more specific. To wax metaphorical, I had at best a fuzzy disposable camera print of the Victorian Age before the class but now I've got more of a print from a digital SLR camera. (Sorry, I like cameras)

One area that was completely changed was my opinion on Victorian sexuality. While they were quite repressed in some ways (as per my original opinion) there were many ways in which they were not at all. Though I have to say, the association between death and sex is a bit creepy.